{"id":9375,"date":"2024-05-23T09:03:00","date_gmt":"2024-05-23T09:03:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.brightmine.com\/uk\/?post_type=resources&#038;p=9375"},"modified":"2026-04-27T13:02:20","modified_gmt":"2026-04-27T13:02:20","slug":"podcast-rethinking-recruitment-and-reskilling","status":"publish","type":"resources","link":"https:\/\/www.brightmine.com\/uk\/resources\/talent-management\/talent-acquisition\/recruitment\/podcast-rethinking-recruitment-and-reskilling\/","title":{"rendered":"Rethinking recruitment and reskilling"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide has-primary-white-background-color has-background has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-b5fc8583 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" style=\"border-radius:25px;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-7fc3d43a wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"flex-basis:70%\">\n<p class=\"\">According to research, almost half of the skills used by the workforce today will no longer be relevant in a couple of years. Given this context of a fast-evolving workplace with shifting needs, it&#8217;s perhaps unsurprising that organisations are struggling to hire people with the right skills. What is to be done? Career mentor Laurie Macpherson joins us to discuss ways for HR and employees to begin to rethink <a href=\"\/uk\/resources\/talent-management\/talent-acquisition\/recruitment\/\">recruitment<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.brightmine.com\/uk\/resources\/blogs\/build-employee-skills-now-for-the-work-of-tomorrow\/\">reskilling<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p id=\"listen\" class=\"\">Listen now for actionable insights, expert analysis, and a look at what\u2019s next for HR.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe title=\"Spotify Embed: Rethinking recruitment and reskilling\" style=\"border-radius: 12px\" width=\"100%\" height=\"152\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture\" loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/5Op7YNhxFvE5ff9yUdN6pW?utm_source=oembed\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<details id=\"transcript\" class=\"wp-block-details has-secondary-blue-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-28466fd9cfa1e2bfddcaba722eed0b35 is-layout-flow wp-block-details-is-layout-flow\" style=\"font-size:clamp(14px, 0.875rem + ((1vw - 3.2px) * 0.548), 18px);\"><summary>Read the transcript<\/summary>\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Hello, and welcome to the Brightmine podcast, formerly known as the XpertHR podcast. Brightmine is a leading provider of people data, analytics and insight, offering employment law expertise, comprehensive HR resources and reward data to meet every HR and organisational challenge and opportunity. You can find us any time of the day or night at www.brightmine.com.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">My name is Robert Shore, and today we\u2019re going to be discussing the need to rethink recruitment. We\u2019re hearing that organisations are struggling to find the right candidates for open roles. There may have been a slowdown in hiring due to economic circumstances but many companies are still looking to hire; they\u2019re just not able to find the right people. This is a major blocker for business growth. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">A key issue in all of this is that organisations are struggling to hire people with the right skills. Added to that challenge is the fact that organisations themselves are changing, as are the skills they need. What is to be done?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">This would seem to be the moment, then, to introduce our guest, Laurie Macpherson. Laurie is a career mentor and associate consultant at Connect Three, a global leadership consultancy based in Glasgow that focuses on making the world a better place in which to live and work. Laurie, welcome.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Thank you so much for having me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Now, before we get into the question of rethinking recruitment I just wanted to ask you a bit about your background and about the sorts of businesses you\u2019ve been working with, as a sort of scene-setter.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yes, absolutely. So I am a career mentor. I come from a background of retail and travel, and then I moved into employability in 2015. So nine years ago now. And I\u2019ve been working on it as part of my own business since 2019. And in that time I\u2019ve been fortunate enough to work with a huge variety of individuals from so many different sectors, from marketing to tech to academic, and also as part of my associate role with Connect Three I\u2019ve delivered training, outplacement support and support around equipment to a variety of small business accelerator. I\u2019ve delivered training to local businesses as part of some of the local funding, and also delivered recruitment and out-placement support for businesses who needed that too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So in my own work I\u2019ve worked with a huge variety of types of business. I\u2019ve been part of the Kickstarter programme after the pandemic. I\u2019ve been part of Business in the Community\u2019s overfifties programme, and I\u2019ve also ran three mentoring programmes and a [unclear \u2013 0:02:52.5] programme for the sustainable aquaculture and innovation centre here in Scotland. So a massive variety of different types of client and helping them all with skills, recruitment and understanding how to find new roles in this modern marketplace.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Yeah. Can I just ask you there about aquaculture. I don\u2019t think we talk much about that. So can you just sort of tell us a bit about what that is?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, absolutely. So when I was asked to do this, I have to confess I said yes \u2013 \u2018cause I\u2019m a big believer in doing so \u2013 and then I went home and Googled \u2018aquaculture\u2019, and it\u2019s all about fish, farming and the practices around that, how we get food on our tables, basically. Obviously a huge industry here in Scotland, one which I knew absolutely nothing about, but the point of it was about bringing mentors and mentees together, and that ran as a really successful programme over three different instances and iterations, and I put the mentors and mentees together and facilitated the programme. Got some brilliant results from it. But I\u2019m fully a believer in saying yes and working out the details later.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: It sounds great. Actually, I think we\u2019re going to come back to aquaculture at various points because I think in this question of recruitment we often think about people always having a computer in front of them and, you know, there\u2019s an easy way to communicate with people all the time. I think some of the circumstances for working in aquaculture probably challenges that. You\u2019re not always online.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yes. I did that work through a company called Skillful and they very much work with researchers and academics to get their work out into industry, and one of the reasons we needed the programme was because they\u2019re so geographically spread out and in a way that we can\u2019t even imagine, and the fact that they couldn\u2019t understand what their next job move might be because it could be hundreds and hundreds of miles away on a totally remote part of the world, and they couldn\u2019t just go and ask someone who does that, and they couldn\u2019t just pop through to the next office and ask to shadow and help. It was literally they couldn\u2019t see their next move because they just couldn\u2019t physically see what was happening around them. So that\u2019s why that programme worked so beautifully.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Let\u2019s begin somewhere near the beginning. How do you change the hiring process so that you can find people with the right skills? For saying there\u2019s this hunt for certain kinds of skills, but what can you do in terms of, say, creating job ads or job descriptions to sort of achieve that kind of clarity so people really know what you\u2019re looking for and they find themselves?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, so it is all about being really, really clear about what you want. And before of course you can do that, Robert, you have to know yourself, and I think it\u2019s something people rehire for the same job that they\u2019ve always done, they\u2019ve always had that particular role, and actually with a little bit more explanation they might realise that actually we need something a little bit different now. There\u2019s a huge piece about not needing to reactively hire all the time because you\u2019re creating a talent pipeline from within and, you know, promoting from within. But also a lot of it is really to do with the language in the job adverts and descriptions. I have had cases where clients have come to me and said, \u2018Can we apply for this?\u2019 and I\u2019ve had to say no, as I have absolutely no idea what they\u2019re actually asking. This is [unclear]. I have no idea what they want you to do, what they need you to do, and what you\u2019d be doing on a day-to-day basis. Like, no. I can\u2019t tell.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So make it really clear exactly what you want and exactly what you need them to have had previously. And you know, what is non-negotiable and what is up for discussion because so often I have clients who want to go for jobs because they like the look of them and they\u2019re maybe nearly there, but make it really clear what are the bits that are going to rule them in and rule them out, I think is really, really important.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And I think also thinking about the talent pool in general, you know, make sure you\u2019re using language because so many times, Robert, I hear from clients who\u2026they just don\u2019t know what some of the words are and they just don\u2019t really [unclear] these lists of things they actually do and know how to do. And sometimes it\u2019s a bit of a class or an expectation thing. So if you\u2019re using really difficult language to talk about something quite simple, you\u2019re going to rule out a tonne of people who could do it but just don\u2019t know that they\u2019re already doing it. A lot of it is down to language and clarity of the job description itself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: We\u2019re hearing a lot about the skills that people need in the contemporary workplace changing quite rapidly, and there are a lot of sort of figures about, 50% of skills that people currently have being obsolete within the next 5-10 years or even sooner. This obviously, as you say, there\u2019s always that temptation to create a pipeline of people who might bring in the skills from outside, but there\u2019s also the issue of reskilling, isn\u2019t there, of getting people already within your workforce to develop themselves? And you\u2019ve just written a piece for us, actually, about squiggly careers or zigzag careers, as we\u2019re calling it. Can you talk to us a little bit about the way that the requirement for skills has changed and how, in thinking about recruitment, employers could think about that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, so I think that the old notion, you know Robert, of going to a career or a job and staying there until someone presented you with a gold clock, you know, has gone, and we know that. And that sounds either absolutely horrifying or great, you know, really exciting. Both are fine, it depends on how you look at it. But we know that people want moves and changes and people are now seeking more and more since the pandemic fulfilment and purpose. It\u2019s something that clients speak to me about all the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So the way that employers can really tap into that is to look at the current workforce not as, you know, this is the thing you do, this must be the thing you always do, but what other things might you like to explore. And I use the word \u2018might\u2019 quite deliberately. You know, it\u2019s not committing yourself or signing your name in blood. It\u2019s sort of saying, \u2018I might be interested in some other part of the business. Can I spend a little bit of time exploring that?\u2019 and understanding that people may want to move and change and flex. And \u2018squiggly career\u2019 is a phrase coined by the amazing women of the Amazing If podcast, and they talk about, \u2018Things would be amazing if\u2026\u2019 They have two amazing books \u2013 The Squiggly Career and You Coach You, which are all about career development and highly, highly recommended. They also have a brilliant podcast with episodes on everything you could possibly need, and they also produce sheets and notes around this. So a tonne of material, lots of free and paid-for training.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And they talk about that fact that we\u2019re going to want to move as individuals. So if your employers are sensible and understanding about this, they can help you to move and you can move with them so that you bring the knowledge of the industry and the business with you. Unfortunately, if you\u2019re not understanding about that and you expect someone to go in and fit into a box forever, they\u2019re unfortunately quite likely to take the desire and the wish to do something a little bit different and take it somewhere else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So people are often finding they have to go out of a company that they actually really like and they enjoy, and they enjoy the work and they enjoy the people they work with, but they\u2019re just not getting those opportunities. There\u2019s lots of carrot-dangling or what I call, you know, \u2018This time next year, Rodney, we will possibly let you move and let you do something else,\u2019 but actually it never really comes to fruition. So employers can and should realise that people\u2019s identity is not fixed. People can move and change, and if they want to develop and support them within the business that\u2019s all there for the taking and they\u2019ll have a supportive and knowledgeable workforce, but they have to allow a little bit of moving and grooving to facilitate this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Yeah. So that sort of learning and development are is important for companies if they actually want to retain the best personnel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it\u2019s about cross-skilling. What do people want to look at? What other things are they interested in? And how can we upskill them to do that, you know, as well as their own role, whether it\u2019s something a bit more technical, whether it\u2019s something more sales-based, you know, whatever it is that they want and you need. It just makes absolute sense to help them to do it as part of their role, rather than sending them off and finding someone else who doesn\u2019t know your business, doesn\u2019t know the industry and doesn\u2019t know the sector.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Yeah. And so one question that comes up quite a lot is, you know, you might know how to put an ad somewhere where people look, where they\u2019re looking to move jobs. How do you let people know within your own organisation that there are things available and that they might be the right person for it? So just how do you do the whole business of promoting internal moves? What practically can organisations do?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, I think again it\u2019s that not waiting until it\u2019s reactive, Robert. It\u2019s not waiting until, \u2018Ta-da, we have a new position!\u2019 It\u2019s, you know, \u2018Who might be interested? Who\u2019s working on that? Who\u2019s showing keen and willing?\u2019 And again, this is a twoway thing. It\u2019s up to the employee to ask and to tell you that they\u2019re interested and willing. But again, they might not know. So it\u2019s also up to you to do a little bit of, \u2018I\u2019ve noticed that you\u2019re particularly skilled at that. I\u2019ve noticed that this is working really, really well. Have you thought about\u2026?\u2019 And hopefully together, between the employer and, you know, L&amp;D and the employee, they can talk about these promotions before they happen so that people can act up, can do a bit of shadowing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Quite often, if you\u2019re going to step up, the things that are stopping you are not having experience of leading the team, not having exposure to certain documents, and not being in the right rooms, not being in the right meetings. So between you and your manager you can facilitate all that happening before the position comes up so that when it does come up you are ready to step in. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And it\u2019s about having a bit of a network at the next level, and it\u2019s about having skills at the next level, and it\u2019s about being exposed and being allowed. Because quite often people will say to me, \u2018I\u2019m looking to step up. Here\u2019s the thing I don\u2019t have but I haven\u2019t been essentially allowed to do that because that\u2019s what my manager does.\u2019 And sometimes there\u2019s a little bit of hands across the jotter, Robert, you know, when managers are kind of protecting their own work a little bit instead of sensibly realising, \u2018I can farm off some tasks to some keen person in my organisation, develop them and also decrease my workload at the same time.\u2019 So there\u2019s a real bit about doing it before and having it all ready.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Having someone ready to go to step in is obviously the dream. But we live in the real world and otherwise it is again about having those conversations where managers go to people and say, \u2018This is coming up. You\u2019re good at this.\u2019 Because the person may or may not know because they may be so busy doing the do that they haven\u2019t ever stopped to think about how this might work as part of their career longer-term.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Most people go into workplaces and stay because they don\u2019t hate it and just kind of sit, and it\u2019s all quite reactive. So can we actually start to help people to get a bit of a strategy?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: And from what you\u2019re seeing, are companies changing? Are they beginning to get better at this? Do you think the message is being understood? <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Well, bearing in mind that I get a lot of people who want to move\u2026so potentially, you know, I\u2019m hearing lots about carrots being dangled and, \u2018Oh, I might retire in ten years\u2019 time.\u2019 \u2018How lovely! But actually, how does that help me?\u2019 So I think it\u2019s slow, is what I would say. Yes, there has been some progress around this, you know, career development piece. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But let\u2019s be honest, there are many organisations where if you go and say, \u2018I want to do this,\u2019 they\u2019ll basically tell you to get back in your box. But those are the organisations that I\u2019m saying to people, \u2018That\u2019s okay. We don\u2019t have to work for them. We don\u2019t have to stay in that place. We can absolutely look for organisations \u2013 within our working abilities, of course. And I think there is some responsibility on the part of the employee as well to think about their own job, career, future, and their potential next moves and not to always be thinking, \u2018Oh, this has happened. Oh dear, let\u2019s work around that,\u2019 But actually, \u2018But here\u2019s what I might like to do next and here\u2019s how I might work on that.\u2019<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So I think it is changing but it is slow and there are some industries where it\u2019s painfully slow. And when I speak to people in these industries, they think that they\u2019re asking for a unicorn when they ask for a bit of development and a bit of flex and I\u2019m having to tell them, \u2018No, it\u2019s completely normal, just not in your industry.\u2019<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Yeah. So I want to get back to aquaculture here for a minute, actually, because we do assume that people have access to a computer and email so that actually you can get a message to people quite easily. In sort of working environments where that\u2019s not the case, how do organisations successfully convey the kind of messaging they need to do around reskilling and a certain kind of, you know, innovative internal recruitment? How does that work if people are out fishing, for instance?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: In that industry it was very much needed that there was more around networking so that they actually could speak to\u2026quite often their manager was the only person out with them, you know, so they weren\u2019t able to have a delightful career conversation where you\u2019re actually doing the do. Out in pretty rough sea conditions sometimes\u2026you know, I\u2019ve met people at conferences that I would have not got on a boat to come to. Yeah, so sometimes it\u2019s that they\u2019re only really with their line manager and someone doing the same thing as them. So that\u2019s where the networking piece was massive, Robert, where they actually had a chance to step back and say, \u2018Here\u2019s what\u2019s happening in the kind of wider world.\u2019 LinkedIn is obviously the obvious place, and I know it gets a lot of negative press. It could be a bit dull but that depends on who you follow. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So what we really tried to do was get these people to create a bit of a community for each other and speak to each other and use each other\u2019s knowledge and skills. And when we saw each other moving around to ask some curious questions about what\u2019s happening and where they\u2019d been going, so I think in that case when you\u2019re not sort of seated at a desk and you don\u2019t have anyone directly to talk to there and then, for us it was placing those mentees with the mentors, and the value add and the knowledge exchange was absolutely two ways so that everybody understood what the bigger picture was, what the landscape was, and what was on offer to them. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">A lot of them didn\u2019t know\u2026\u2019cause the first time someone said to me, \u2018I don\u2019t want to be stuck doing seaweed all my life.\u2019 I thought, \u2018Is that a thing? Is that like typecasting?\u2019 But apparently in that sector it is. So you know, or, \u2018I don\u2019t want to just be landed with salmon forever.\u2019 And again, I was thinking, \u2018Is that a thing?\u2019 But it is. So it\u2019s about seeing that, you know, \u2018Your skills are 100% absolutely useable by someone else. Here\u2019s the sort of job I\u2019m doing but I\u2019ve also done this and that.\u2019 And it\u2019s literally, I didn\u2019t know that job existed or that company existed. It\u2019s joining dots and opening doors in an industry where those are not obvious to you because of the physical location and physical sorts of work that you have to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Yeah. So as you say, LinkedIn is quite useful for that. What did you do there to build out that sort of networking piece?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: In terms of that particular programme, as I say, I ran that through a company called Skillful. We facilitated that everyone had each other\u2019s contact details. We ran initial sessions with the mentors and the mentees, and then we ran a final session twice on Zoom so they could all sort of see each other. We encouraged them to connect with each other and not just their own mentor but also sort of threw the doors open. We had a small LinkedIn group.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">It never worked particularly well but it let the ones in one of the small sections kind of speak to each other. And the last session we ran was actually a lovely sort of celebration of lots of the programmes that [unclear] had been running and we actually got everyone together in a room and there was time for networking where we actually spoke and did the connection piece face-to-face, which I have to say there is nothing like. It\u2019s just that it\u2019s not always physically possible when people are literally all over the place. We opened it up and we made it really clear that we could, you know, I could do introductions if needed. Everybody sort of connected with me, essentially, and then I was connected with everybody so we could all see each other\u2019s thinking popping up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And it gave me great joy to see people out and moving jobs and seeing the congratulations and the change of role etc., and everyone could see where each other was going and get a bit of a, \u2018Ah, okay. That\u2019s an option. Where did she go?\u2019 And I always encourage them to do a little bit of sleuthing and look back and \u2018What did they do before and where did they do it and who did they have on connections?\u2019 Follow them, connect with them, grow your network. There\u2019s a bit of proactive stuff that has to go on here, as well as of course the times and the sessions that we set up for them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Yeah. And as you say, though, it\u2019s important to set aside a minute or two for a bit of reflection as well, isn\u2019t it, on actually what you\u2019ve done, what came of the things that you did so that you actively learn?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Absolutely. And one of the things I talk about all the time is that, you know, we don\u2019t know what\u2019s coming next. We can\u2019t in this world or in careers or whatever. What we do know is we\u2019re going to need [unclear] work and we\u2019re going to need some evidence of the things we\u2019ve done before. So would you ever just take a minute to get your evidence down? Yeah, tomorrow, so 3rd of the month, I\u2019ll be sending a poster out into the world saying, \u2018This is the time to sit down and write down the things you\u2019ve done, tools you\u2019ve used, and what you\u2019ve been up to in April so that you have them ready, so when someone asks you to join a committee, there\u2019s a board role, there\u2019s a promotion, there\u2019s a secondment, someone asks you to sit on a panel, you have some evidence to give them.\u2019<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: And obviously if you\u2019re working within a company, say you\u2019ve got an HR role, it\u2019s useful to have in mind these things so that you can also adopt them into what you do in the company in order to keep people happy within the company rather than having them always look out to go somewhere else for that next role. So it is quite important that actually organisations think about doing this for their own employees at the moment, would you say or\u2026?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, 100%. As I say, there\u2019s a bit of two-way responsibility. But so often, as you know, companies do a yearly appraisal, Robert, and it\u2019s kind of one-and-done. And actually, if I was a manager right now I would be encouraging my team to go and say, \u2018Right, it\u2019s the 2nd of the month, tomorrow at three o\u2019clock I want you to finish half an hour early and write down\u2026we\u2019ll talk about the projects we\u2019ve been working on this month, we\u2019ll talk about some wins, we\u2019ll talk about some learns.\u2019 I do it in a business group that I\u2019m in. We do wins and challenges every month and it just\u2026the ideas just flow and the wins\u2026so yes, employers can absolutely facilitate this. But that can become the norm, that we sit down every month and look at what we\u2019ve been working on, you know, because it\u2019s normal to you that you can use the systems. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">You know, I had a lady yesterday looking for a new role and she hasn\u2019t used a project management tool yet. She hasn\u2019t used Asana. So I said, \u2018Right\u2026\u2019 My rule is always is you see it on one advert, if one advert asks you to be able to tap dance or roller-skate backwards and you can\u2019t, delete and ignore. But if every advert is asking for it, you would be wise to get it. So if you are already using a project management tool \u2013 WorkDay, Google, whatever you are using, Oracle, Sage, whatever \u2013 this is sellable and of value to someone else. If you\u2019ve been working on a project around employee benefits, who did you look at? Who did you research? Why did you choose the ones you did? If it\u2019s pensions, the same. What have you been doing and what was the impact and result? Or what will it be? You can start to construct that bit of a story. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Again, this can be to use internally and it can absolutely be great for HR and L&amp;D teams to embed with employees that this is something that we do to support our development, not just leaving and going into something else, but also within the company so that when we need a champion for something, we need a panel, we\u2019re looking for, you know, some internal content for the intranet, you can put your hand up \u2018cause you have something to talk about and something to hook it on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: We\u2019re talking about ways in which things are changing within the workplace, in relation specifically to recruitment. So I wanted to bring in a couple of other questions that get a lot of coverage at the moment. I mean, one is around the expectation of flexibility, changes recently to the law around requesting flexible working. What impact is this having on organisations that you can see, and also just on how workers are thinking about this? How is it working out as well? We hear a lot about the theory.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, Robert. So we know for a fact that \u2013 and I was lucky enough to go along to a conference in Glasgow with Flexibility Works, who have done a recent study on this \u2013 and as we already know, people at the top of the tree, the more senior you are, the more likely you are to get flexible working. And you\u2019re also more likely to have a better salary at that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So my clients who are senior, mid to senior level, it\u2019s a huge consideration. And I actually had a lovely conversation last week where someone said, \u2018I want to work four days. I haven\u2019t got young kids. I haven\u2019t got elderly parents. I just want to work four days. Is that allowed? Can I do that?\u2019 And I said, \u2018Absolutely!\u2019 And the more of us that ask for it, the more it will become the norm. So again, it\u2019s that employees are wanting flex at the moment. They\u2019re desperately looking for hybrid usually, though sometimes fully from home. I\u2019m seeing an awful lot. I\u2019m in all the Facebook groups around flexibility. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">People are asking for that above anything else, like, \u2018I just need a flexible job.\u2019 They kind of don\u2019t care what it is. And I\u2019m always encouraging them to go back and actually work out, \u2018What do you want?\u2019 Now let\u2019s assume that there\u2019ll be a degree of flexibility and then let\u2019s speak to them about that down the line, but that doesn\u2019t always work. So employees expect it, and if you don\u2019t offer it you will have many, many less responses to your adverts. The problem is, lots of folk don\u2019t really describe clearly exactly what their flexibility is. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">There\u2019s lots of vague, \u2018We\u2019re happy to discuss.\u2019 There\u2019s lots of vague, \u2018We operate a family friendly policy.\u2019 Actually stating, \u2018We need you to be four days or three days or two days in the office and this is Monday and Thursday,\u2019 would make so many people\u2019s lives so much easier, and they would just be able not to apply. So again, it\u2019s about being clear. Employees want and need flex, and not just ones with caring responsibilities. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I always say this. I\u2019m child-free. I still want a degree of flexibility. I still want to work from home, some of the time at least. And I need my employer to be okay with that. So if employers are not willing to do it, they will have people leave and they will struggle to recruit new ones because it&#8217;s something that people do want. I can\u2019t remember the stat but it\u2019s ridiculously high, the amount of people that want flex.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: So the clarity is important and also for employers to be creative and to think about really what\u2019s possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: I always say to people, \u2018Come with solutions.\u2019 So you know, find your job-share partner, then present yourself as a whole person \u2013 you do two and she does three, you know, for example. I know that\u2019s\u2026people sort of think, \u2018Oh, that\u2019s a bit off the wall.\u2019 Yeah, it is, but employers need you to make it easy for them or they\u2019re not going to hire you \u2018cause they can hire someone else right now. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But that can\u2019t go on forever. And as I say, if they just said it\u2019s certain days or it\u2019s this and it\u2019s that, you can make a decision. Again, the really vague stuff, what tends to happen is people get so far into the interview stage, it\u2019s such a waste of everyone\u2019s time, and then they say, \u2018No, it\u2019s fully from the office.\u2019 If you just put that on your ad, people would either opt in or opt out. There are people out there who want to work in an office environment or want to work out of the home. They don\u2019t have the space, they don\u2019t have the piece, they don\u2019t have the setup. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But just make it really, along with please, please, please state the salary. Make it really clear so that people can opt in and there\u2019s none of this wasting time and messing about in this sort of unclear swamp of, \u2018It might work for me or it might not.\u2019 And I get asked lots of questions about, \u2018How do I ask?\u2019 as if it\u2019s some unicorn again to ask for some flexibility. You know, \u2018When do I ask?\u2019 Waiting, you know, all the sort of awkward questioning. That could all be avoided by just telling people what it is that you expect them to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Yeah, you mentioned there transparency around wages and salary as well. Do you think that companies you\u2019re looking at at the moment are becoming more transparent? There are various kind of, you know, from the EU there\u2019s a big change that\u2019s coming in. Do you think there\u2019s already a bit of a shift? [0:26:08.5]<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, I think it\u2019s getting better. Again, one of the groups that I\u2019m in, you\u2019re only allowed to post your job if there\u2019s a salary attached. Again, it\u2019s just clarity, Robert. Why would I waste all my time and yours \u2013 and I\u2019ve seen it, you know, with clients saying, \u2018This looks really interesting,\u2019 and I read between the lines and say, \u2018They\u2019re going to offer you \u00a320,000 less than you\u2019re on. Why are we going through this process? \u2018Cause I can tell from the way they\u2019ve written it.\u2019 \u2018Oh, are you sure?\u2019 So I always say to them, \u2018Do you know what? Go and ask the question. And make it as if it\u2019s for their sake. \u201cI really don\u2019t want to waste your time on this. Looks fantastic. What\u2019s the salary?\u201d If they still mess around, I would pull out.\u2019<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I\u2019m working on an out-placement piece at the moment for [unclear] and they\u2019re a good position in terms of where they\u2019re at with the consultation and I\u2019m just, \u2018If it doesn\u2019t have a salary, don\u2019t apply. Right now.\u2019 Plan A is not to waste time. Go for jobs that you know what you\u2019re getting. If we\u2019re six months down the line then we might have to have a different conversation but right now, just do not apply. So these jobs might be absolutely fantastic but they won\u2019t apply because they\u2019re just not keen to waste lots and lots of time taking a hit on what they\u2019ve got right now, which is a fairly sort of decent salary. And I\u2019m advising them, you know, \u2018Don\u2019t do it.\u2019<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Yeah. And as you say, it\u2019s important for employers to do it because actually they\u2019re potentially turning away or not getting applications from the sort of people that they would like to get applications from<br>as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: I don\u2019t know what things are like so much down your neck of the woods, but the latest stat is that one in four Scottish employers are struggling to recruit. It\u2019s not an insignificant number. So tell us what you want, tell us what you\u2019ll give us in return, tell us where we\u2019ll need to work. These are not\u2026as the woman says in Steel Magnolias, \u2018These are not difficult questions.\u2019<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: One other thing in terms of rethinking recruitment and how you might need to think about how you are phrasing ads or actually just describing to yourself what a job is, we hear a lot about the multigenerational workforce and workplace. Do you think that actually different generations \u2013 and obviously speaking in generalisations here, but there are nonetheless tendencies \u2013 do you think that there are different ways that you need to speak to different people in order to really get them to respond positively?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, I think I\u2019ve seen lots of ads that clearly want a younger person, the way that they describe the office culture etc., and I always say to clients, \u2018If they talk about their beautiful shiny office and the fruit that they provide, they want you in it, right? They\u2019re not going to let you sit at home while the fruit rots in the bowl.\u2019 So we can glean a lot from the ad. But yeah, definitely. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">You know, certain things are more important to the younger generation. Purpose and, you know, autonomy being massively important, but also just really clear\u2026if you can make it really clear what it is that we want and what it is that we can offer, it means that people again can self-select. They can rule themselves in or they can rule themselves out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And I always laugh and say, you know, we joke that people are not avocados but they seem to go from this really hard and they could take out your window to brown mush almost overnight, and I always want to know when they actually hit the sweet spot. Because the young folks can\u2019t get in because they haven\u2019t got experience, and then anyone over sort of 45 is like, \u2018I wonder if I\u2019m going to be hit with some ageism.\u2019 So where is the happy place in the middle? <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And actually, you know, we\u2019re going to be working longer and longer and longer, so employers would do well if they are struggling to think about how they could potentially appeal to the older generation. The studies show that once they\u2019re in, they tend to stay in. You know, again generalising massively, and the employers who try to recruit, you know, the older market, like your Waitrose and your B&amp;Qs, they\u2019re super loyal, experienced, skilled employees. We just need to speak to them a bit differently and make sure that certain things are being thought about and certain things are being considered in the way that we way offer sort of shifts in work patterns and the way that we speak to them. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But yeah, I think it\u2019s just realising that there\u2019s a valuable workforce at all stages out there, and how do we leverage that as an employer and make sure that we have a good balance and a good mix across what people can do and what people can\u2019t do. It may not be, you know, in direct proportion to their age.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: You were saying there about a certain kind of ad, if it mentions this then it means they would want you to be in the office or whatever. With, say, Gen Z, if you want to make sure that Gen Z really engage with an ad and think about it is being for them, what would they be looking for, do you think? Again, it\u2019s a generalisation. It doesn\u2019t really speak for everybody but nonetheless\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, it makes me laugh \u2018cause I was reading one yesterday that was talking about the snacks and all of that thing. And actually, Gen Z have said, \u2018Don\u2019t bother buying me an apple. Just give me a wage that I can actually buy the apple for myself.\u2019 And I think that\u2019s really true. You know, rather than any sort of gimmicky things, like they\u2019re really nice and pizza on a Friday. It\u2019s lovely, but I would actually rather you gave me enough money that I could buy my own pizza. So wage is really important to them because of the cost of living, trying to get their first feet on the ladder to get out of their parents\u2019 house is really, really difficult. Quite often they would quite like to work from home but there\u2019s obviously the conversation around getting the learning and the knowledge from others, so usually hybrid is great for Gen Z and they\u2019re quite used to working in that way. You know, they\u2019re quite happy. They studied in that way, they\u2019re quite happy to do it. And I think it\u2019s just about a little bit of autonomy with a little bit of giving them some<br>experience as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: Do you think then that if we\u2019re talking about boomers or older Gen Xs, is there a different way of talking to them that draws them in?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yeah, sometimes they like \u2013 and I\u2019m generalising and I\u2019m 45 so I need to be careful what I say here! \u2013 sometimes older folks like to know a little bit more about stability, you know, and maybe not as much career progression but sort of stability, long-established business, been here for a while. You know, all that stuff that sounds like you\u2019re not\u2026quite often people get really hacked off with, like, however many rounds of redundancy by the time they hit mid-forties, fifties and think, \u2018I can\u2019t go through this again. I would actually just like to go somewhere and sit.\u2019 And I mean that in the nicest possible way, that they will provide a really valuable contribution. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">They maybe don\u2019t want to go up, climb the career ladder and maybe don\u2019t want to necessarily do anything different. They\u2019re just wanting to be a steady, safe pair of hands. And they might absolutely \u2013 people will be listening with hands in the air in horror \u2013 they might want to progress still. But quite often people get to an age and they think, \u2018I\u2019m just quite happy to\u2026\u2019 I have the conversation a lot, you know, \u2018Do you want to [unclear]?\u2019 \u2018Absolutely not.\u2019 \u2018Do you want to manage people?\u2019 \u2018Please not if I can help it.\u2019 You know? People are more interested sometimes nowadays \u2013 and it depends on the person \u2013 in managing a project or a thing rather than people. \u2018Cause people management\u2019s really, really hard. So maybe it\u2019s about stability and sort of reward and recognition, understanding of their place rather than having to constantly be moving and chopping and changing, much as chopping and changing and moving is a fundamental part of career, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: That is also part of the idea of the squiggly career, though, isn\u2019t it as well, that actually you might want to stay in a place but you still would quite like to learn new skills and also new skills are required all the time and so, yeah, it\u2019s less about climbing the career ladder and it\u2019s more about actually finding that, you know, still there is variety in what you do?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong>: Yes, and being open to that while sort of knowing that you can stay in that same place without having to constantly keep reinventing the wheel. As long as you\u2019re prepared to learn the skills and take the training and the learning, you\u2019re quite happy to stay in the overall environment. You\u2019ve presumably built up relationships and friendships over the time as well, as well as your skills.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong>: So Laurie, thank you so much for your time today. There are, of course, lots of supporting materials on the Brightmine website. I\u2019ll put a link to those in the show notes. That\u2019s all we have time for today, so until next time.<\/p>\n<\/details>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"speakers\">Brightmine host<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-6c531013 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-thumbnail is-resized is-style-rounded\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/cdn.brightmine.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/01\/17154338\/Robert_Shore-150x150.webp\" alt=\"Robert Shore, HR Market Insights Editor at Brightmine\" class=\"wp-image-10115\" style=\"object-fit:cover;width:100px;height:100px\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Robert Shore<\/strong><br>HR Markets Insights Editor, Brightmine<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Guest speakers<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-6c531013 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-full is-resized is-style-rounded\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"https:\/\/cdn.brightmine.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/01\/13144636\/speaker-avatar.webp\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-14506\" style=\"object-fit:cover;width:100px;height:100px\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong><strong>Laurie Macpherson<\/strong><\/strong><br>Career Mentor and Associate Consultant, at Connect Three<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column lnrs-hide-block-on-mobile is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\" style=\"border-left-color:var(--wp--preset--color--secondary-gray);border-left-width:2px;padding-left:10px;flex-basis:30%\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained wp-container-2 is-position-sticky\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-secondary-gray-background-color has-background has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-db4c44a6 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" style=\"border-radius:14px;padding-top:10px;padding-right:10px;padding-bottom:10px;padding-left:10px\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-4b827052 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<p style=\"margin-bottom:5px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400\" class=\"\">In this resource:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-primary-black-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-459ffb2a7b3dc338c93226d3be8270c8\" style=\"margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;font-size:clamp(14px, 0.875rem + ((1vw - 3.2px) * 0.274), 16px);line-height:1.3\"><a href=\"#listen\">Listen now<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-primary-black-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-53b045a32da828cda288ce2a72946a2d\" style=\"margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;font-size:clamp(14px, 0.875rem + ((1vw - 3.2px) * 0.274), 16px);line-height:1.3\"><a href=\"#transcript\">Transcript<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-primary-black-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-71518ad09f03d83428d3713a9cbb6f21\" style=\"margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;font-size:clamp(14px, 0.875rem + ((1vw - 3.2px) * 0.274), 16px);line-height:1.3\"><a href=\"#speakers\">Speakers<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-bleach-white-background-color has-background has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-a36fa716 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" style=\"border-radius:14px;padding-top:10px;padding-right:15px;padding-bottom:15px;padding-left:15px\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Navigate HR complexity with confidence<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">With Brightmine, you can build powerful people strategies, implement best practices and set your organisation up for a brighter future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Learn how our tools, resources and automation can empower you and your team.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"\/uk\/solutions\/?intcmp=cta|blog|solutions|learn-more\" style=\"border-radius:25px\">Learn more<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" style=\"margin-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40);margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40)\">\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"#top\">Go back to the top<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-primary-white-background-color has-background has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-4b7a3f7f wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" style=\"border-radius:25px;margin-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30)\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">You may also be interested in&#8230;<\/h2>\n\n\n<section id=\"resources-search-filter\" class=\"wp-elements-a7531da982a24d7b782746d77187259e wp-block-brightmine-resources-filter has-text-color has-primary-black-color has-background has-primary-white-background-color\">\n\n\n<div class=\"ajax-filter\">\n<div class=\"lnrs-resources-search-filter editor-posts-filtered-types  \">\n\t\t<div class=\"search_terms_bottom\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"bottom_left\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"search_terms_result_count\">\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"bottom_right\">\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<div class=\"loader-container\">\n\t\t<span class=\"loader\" style=\"display: none;\"><\/span>\n\t<\/div>\n\n\n\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-filter-widget__container\">\n\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__resource\" style=\"background-color: #f3f2f0\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.brightmine.com\/uk\/resources\/hr-strategy\/workforce-planning\/employment-rights-act-special-how-organisation-design-can-help-businesses\/\"><div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__resource_image\" style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/cdn.brightmine.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/03\/31122925\/two-people-reviewing-laptop-together-at-table.webp);\"><\/div><\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__inner_content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"content-top\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__categories\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__category\">Podcasts<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"title\" style=\"color: #00728B\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.brightmine.com\/uk\/resources\/hr-strategy\/workforce-planning\/employment-rights-act-special-how-organisation-design-can-help-businesses\/\">How organisation design can help businesses in a period of profound change<\/a><\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<p style=\"color: #000000\">Discover how organisation design can support compliance with the Employment Rights Act while improving workforce planning and business &#8230;<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__resource\" style=\"background-color: #f3f2f0\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.brightmine.com\/uk\/resources\/hr-strategy\/hr-technology\/ai-in-hr\/the-ai-challenge-performance-expectations-and-measurements\/\"><div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__resource_image\" style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/cdn.brightmine.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/12\/31205722\/feature-ai-fundamentals.webp);\"><\/div><\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__inner_content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"content-top\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__categories\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__category\">Podcasts<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"title\" style=\"color: #00728B\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.brightmine.com\/uk\/resources\/hr-strategy\/hr-technology\/ai-in-hr\/the-ai-challenge-performance-expectations-and-measurements\/\">The AI challenge &#8211; adjust your performance expectations and measurements now!<\/a><\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<p style=\"color: #000000\">From hype to outcomes: Learn how HR teams can set realistic AI performance expectations and measure success with &#8230;<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__resource\" style=\"background-color: #f3f2f0\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.brightmine.com\/uk\/resources\/gender-pay-gap-reporting-lessons-learned-and-what-comes-next\/\"><div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__resource_image\" style=\"background-image: url(https:\/\/cdn.brightmine.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/04\/08135554\/gender-equity-feature-image-1.webp);\"><\/div><\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__inner_content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"content-top\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__categories\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"lnrs-resource-hub-widget__category\">Podcasts<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"title\" style=\"color: #00728B\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.brightmine.com\/uk\/resources\/gender-pay-gap-reporting-lessons-learned-and-what-comes-next\/\">Gender pay gap reporting &#8211; lessons learned and what comes next<\/a><\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<p style=\"color: #000000\">Michelle Gyimah joins the Brightmine podcast to explain Employment Rights Act 2025 reforms and why HR should prepare &#8230;<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\n<\/div>\n<\/section><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-primary-white-background-color has-background has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-0fd240ca wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" id=\"newsletter\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30)\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center 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\/><\/span><\/div>\n<div><span class=\"wpcf7-form-control-wrap\" data-name=\"EmailAddress\"><input size=\"40\" maxlength=\"320\" class=\"wpcf7-form-control wpcf7-email wpcf7-validates-as-required wpcf7-text wpcf7-validates-as-email\" aria-required=\"true\" aria-invalid=\"false\" placeholder=\"Business email address\" value=\"\" type=\"email\" name=\"EmailAddress\" \/><\/span><\/div>\n<div><span class=\"wpcf7-form-control-wrap\" data-name=\"Country\"><select class=\"wpcf7-form-control wpcf7-select wpcf7-validates-as-required\" aria-required=\"true\" aria-invalid=\"false\" name=\"Country\"><option value=\"\">Your country \/ region<\/option><option value=\"United Kingdom\">United Kingdom<\/option><option value=\"United States\">United States<\/option><option value=\"Afghanistan\">Afghanistan<\/option><option value=\"Aland Islands\">Aland Islands<\/option><option value=\"Albania\">Albania<\/option><option value=\"Algeria\">Algeria<\/option><option value=\"American Samoa\">American Samoa<\/option><option value=\"Andorra\">Andorra<\/option><option value=\"Angola\">Angola<\/option><option value=\"Anguilla\">Anguilla<\/option><option value=\"Antarctica\">Antarctica<\/option><option value=\"Antigua and Barbuda\">Antigua and Barbuda<\/option><option value=\"Argentina\">Argentina<\/option><option value=\"Armenia\">Armenia<\/option><option value=\"Aruba\">Aruba<\/option><option value=\"Australia\">Australia<\/option><option value=\"Austria\">Austria<\/option><option value=\"Azerbaijan\">Azerbaijan<\/option><option value=\"Bahamas\">Bahamas<\/option><option value=\"Bahrain\">Bahrain<\/option><option value=\"Bangladesh\">Bangladesh<\/option><option value=\"Barbados\">Barbados<\/option><option value=\"Belarus\">Belarus<\/option><option value=\"Belgium\">Belgium<\/option><option value=\"Belize\">Belize<\/option><option value=\"Benin\">Benin<\/option><option value=\"Bermuda\">Bermuda<\/option><option value=\"Bhutan\">Bhutan<\/option><option value=\"Bolivia, Plurinational State\">Bolivia, Plurinational State<\/option><option value=\"Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba\">Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba<\/option><option value=\"Bosnia and Herzegovina\">Bosnia and Herzegovina<\/option><option value=\"Botswana\">Botswana<\/option><option value=\"Bouvet Island\">Bouvet Island<\/option><option value=\"Brazil\">Brazil<\/option><option value=\"British Indian Ocean Territory\">British Indian Ocean Territory<\/option><option value=\"Brunei\n    Darussalam\">Brunei\n    Darussalam<\/option><option value=\"Bulgaria\">Bulgaria<\/option><option value=\"Burkina Faso\">Burkina Faso<\/option><option value=\"Burundi\">Burundi<\/option><option value=\"Cambodia\">Cambodia<\/option><option value=\"Cameroon\">Cameroon<\/option><option value=\"Canada\">Canada<\/option><option value=\"Cape Verde\">Cape Verde<\/option><option value=\"Cayman Islands\">Cayman Islands<\/option><option value=\"Central African Republic\">Central African Republic<\/option><option value=\"Chad\">Chad<\/option><option value=\"Chile\">Chile<\/option><option value=\"China\">China<\/option><option value=\"Christmas Island\">Christmas Island<\/option><option value=\"Cocos (Keeling) Islands\">Cocos (Keeling) Islands<\/option><option value=\"Colombia\">Colombia<\/option><option value=\"Comoros\">Comoros<\/option><option value=\"Congo\">Congo<\/option><option value=\"Congo, the Democratic Republic of the\">Congo, the Democratic Republic of the<\/option><option value=\"Cook Islands\">Cook Islands<\/option><option value=\"Costa Rica\">Costa Rica<\/option><option value=\"Cote d&#039;Ivoire\">Cote d&#039;Ivoire<\/option><option value=\"Croatia\">Croatia<\/option><option value=\"Cuba\">Cuba<\/option><option value=\"Cura\u00e7ao\">Cura\u00e7ao<\/option><option value=\"Cyprus\">Cyprus<\/option><option value=\"Czech\n    Republic\">Czech\n    Republic<\/option><option value=\"Denmark\">Denmark<\/option><option value=\"Djibouti\">Djibouti<\/option><option value=\"Dominica\">Dominica<\/option><option value=\"Dominican Republic\">Dominican Republic<\/option><option value=\"Ecuador\">Ecuador<\/option><option value=\"Egypt\">Egypt<\/option><option value=\"El Salvador\">El Salvador<\/option><option value=\"Equatorial Guinea\">Equatorial Guinea<\/option><option value=\"Eritrea\">Eritrea<\/option><option value=\"Estonia\">Estonia<\/option><option value=\"Eswatini\">Eswatini<\/option><option value=\"Ethiopia\">Ethiopia<\/option><option value=\"Falkland Islands (Malvinas)\">Falkland Islands (Malvinas)<\/option><option value=\"Faroe Islands\">Faroe Islands<\/option><option value=\"Fiji\">Fiji<\/option><option value=\"Finland\">Finland<\/option><option value=\"France\">France<\/option><option value=\"French Guiana\">French Guiana<\/option><option value=\"French Polynesia\">French Polynesia<\/option><option value=\"French Southern Territories\">French Southern Territories<\/option><option value=\"Gabon\">Gabon<\/option><option value=\"Gambia\">Gambia<\/option><option value=\"Georgia\">Georgia<\/option><option value=\"Germany\">Germany<\/option><option value=\"Ghana\">Ghana<\/option><option value=\"Gibraltar\">Gibraltar<\/option><option value=\"Greece\">Greece<\/option><option value=\"Greenland\">Greenland<\/option><option value=\"Grenada\">Grenada<\/option><option value=\"Guadeloupe\">Guadeloupe<\/option><option value=\"Guam\">Guam<\/option><option value=\"Guatemala\">Guatemala<\/option><option value=\"Guernsey\">Guernsey<\/option><option value=\"Guinea\">Guinea<\/option><option value=\"Guinea-Bissau\">Guinea-Bissau<\/option><option value=\"Guyana\">Guyana<\/option><option value=\"Haiti\">Haiti<\/option><option value=\"Heard Island and McDonald Islands\">Heard Island and McDonald Islands<\/option><option value=\"Holy\n    See (Vatican City State)\">Holy\n    See (Vatican City State)<\/option><option value=\"Honduras\">Honduras<\/option><option value=\"Hong Kong\">Hong Kong<\/option><option value=\"Hungary\">Hungary<\/option><option value=\"Iceland\">Iceland<\/option><option value=\"India\">India<\/option><option value=\"Indonesia\">Indonesia<\/option><option value=\"Iran, Islamic Republic of\">Iran, Islamic Republic of<\/option><option value=\"Iraq\">Iraq<\/option><option value=\"Ireland\">Ireland<\/option><option value=\"Isle of Man\">Isle of Man<\/option><option value=\"Israel\">Israel<\/option><option value=\"Italy\">Italy<\/option><option value=\"Jamaica\">Jamaica<\/option><option value=\"Japan\">Japan<\/option><option value=\"Jersey\">Jersey<\/option><option value=\"Jordan\">Jordan<\/option><option value=\"Kazakhstan\">Kazakhstan<\/option><option value=\"Kenya\">Kenya<\/option><option value=\"Kiribati\">Kiribati<\/option><option value=\"Korea, Democratic People&#039;s Republic of\">Korea, Democratic People&#039;s Republic of<\/option><option value=\"Korea, Republic of\">Korea, Republic of<\/option><option value=\"Kosovo\">Kosovo<\/option><option value=\"Kuwait\">Kuwait<\/option><option value=\"Kyrgyzstan\">Kyrgyzstan<\/option><option value=\"Lao People&#039;s Democratic Republic\">Lao People&#039;s Democratic Republic<\/option><option value=\"Latvia\">Latvia<\/option><option value=\"Lebanon\">Lebanon<\/option><option value=\"Lesotho\">Lesotho<\/option><option value=\"Liberia\">Liberia<\/option><option value=\"Libyan Arab Jamahiriya\">Libyan Arab Jamahiriya<\/option><option value=\"Liechtenstein\">Liechtenstein<\/option><option value=\"Lithuania\">Lithuania<\/option><option value=\"Luxembourg\">Luxembourg<\/option><option value=\"Macao\">Macao<\/option><option value=\"Macedonia, the former Yugoslav Republic\n    of\">Macedonia, the former Yugoslav Republic\n    of<\/option><option value=\"Madagascar\">Madagascar<\/option><option value=\"Malawi\">Malawi<\/option><option value=\"Malaysia\">Malaysia<\/option><option value=\"Maldives\">Maldives<\/option><option value=\"Mali\">Mali<\/option><option value=\"Malta\">Malta<\/option><option value=\"Marshall\n    Islands\">Marshall\n    Islands<\/option><option value=\"Martinique\">Martinique<\/option><option value=\"Mauritania\">Mauritania<\/option><option value=\"Mauritius\">Mauritius<\/option><option value=\"Mayotte\">Mayotte<\/option><option value=\"Mexico\">Mexico<\/option><option value=\"Micronesia\">Micronesia<\/option><option value=\"Moldova, Republic of\">Moldova, Republic of<\/option><option value=\"Monaco\">Monaco<\/option><option value=\"Mongolia\">Mongolia<\/option><option value=\"Montenegro\">Montenegro<\/option><option value=\"Montserrat\">Montserrat<\/option><option value=\"Morocco\">Morocco<\/option><option value=\"Mozambique\">Mozambique<\/option><option value=\"Myanmar\">Myanmar<\/option><option value=\"Namibia\">Namibia<\/option><option value=\"Nauru\">Nauru<\/option><option value=\"Nepal\">Nepal<\/option><option value=\"Netherlands\">Netherlands<\/option><option value=\"New Caledonia\">New Caledonia<\/option><option value=\"New Zealand\">New Zealand<\/option><option value=\"Nicaragua\">Nicaragua<\/option><option value=\"Niger\">Niger<\/option><option value=\"Nigeria\">Nigeria<\/option><option value=\"Niue\">Niue<\/option><option value=\"Norfolk Island\">Norfolk Island<\/option><option value=\"Northern Mariana Islands\">Northern Mariana Islands<\/option><option value=\"Norway\">Norway<\/option><option value=\"Oman\">Oman<\/option><option value=\"Pakistan\">Pakistan<\/option><option value=\"Palau\">Palau<\/option><option value=\"Palestinian Territory, Occupied\">Palestinian Territory, Occupied<\/option><option value=\"Panama\">Panama<\/option><option value=\"Papua New\n    Guinea\">Papua New\n    Guinea<\/option><option value=\"Paraguay\">Paraguay<\/option><option value=\"Peru\">Peru<\/option><option value=\"Philippines\">Philippines<\/option><option value=\"Pitcairn\">Pitcairn<\/option><option value=\"Poland\">Poland<\/option><option value=\"Portugal\">Portugal<\/option><option value=\"Puerto Rico\">Puerto Rico<\/option><option value=\"Qatar\">Qatar<\/option><option value=\"Reunion\">Reunion<\/option><option value=\"Romania\">Romania<\/option><option value=\"Russian Federation\">Russian Federation<\/option><option value=\"Rwanda\">Rwanda<\/option><option value=\"Saint Barth\u00e9lemy\">Saint Barth\u00e9lemy<\/option><option value=\"Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha\">Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha<\/option><option value=\"Saint\n    Kitts and Nevis\">Saint\n    Kitts and Nevis<\/option><option value=\"Saint Lucia\">Saint Lucia<\/option><option value=\"Saint Martin (French part)\">Saint Martin (French part)<\/option><option value=\"Saint Pierre\n    and Miquelon\">Saint Pierre\n    and Miquelon<\/option><option value=\"Saint Vincent and the Grenadines\">Saint Vincent and the Grenadines<\/option><option value=\"Samoa\">Samoa<\/option><option value=\"San Marino\">San Marino<\/option><option value=\"Sao\n    Tome and Principe\">Sao\n    Tome and Principe<\/option><option value=\"Saudi Arabia\">Saudi Arabia<\/option><option value=\"Senegal\">Senegal<\/option><option value=\"Serbia\">Serbia<\/option><option value=\"Seychelles\">Seychelles<\/option><option value=\"Sierra\n    Leone\">Sierra\n    Leone<\/option><option value=\"Singapore\">Singapore<\/option><option value=\"Sint Maarten (Dutch part)\">Sint Maarten (Dutch part)<\/option><option value=\"Slovakia\">Slovakia<\/option><option value=\"Slovenia\">Slovenia<\/option><option value=\"Solomon Islands\">Solomon Islands<\/option><option value=\"Somalia\">Somalia<\/option><option value=\"South Africa\">South Africa<\/option><option value=\"South Georgia and the South\n    Sandwich Islands\">South Georgia and the South\n    Sandwich Islands<\/option><option value=\"South Sudan\">South Sudan<\/option><option value=\"Spain\">Spain<\/option><option value=\"Sri Lanka\">Sri Lanka<\/option><option value=\"Sudan\">Sudan<\/option><option value=\"Suriname\">Suriname<\/option><option value=\"Svalbard and Jan Mayen\">Svalbard and Jan Mayen<\/option><option value=\"Sweden\">Sweden<\/option><option value=\"Switzerland\">Switzerland<\/option><option value=\"Syrian Arab Republic\">Syrian Arab Republic<\/option><option value=\"Taiwan\">Taiwan<\/option><option value=\"Tajikistan\">Tajikistan<\/option><option value=\"Tanzania, United Republic of\">Tanzania, United Republic of<\/option><option value=\"Thailand\">Thailand<\/option><option value=\"Timor-Leste\">Timor-Leste<\/option><option value=\"Togo\">Togo<\/option><option value=\"Tokelau\">Tokelau<\/option><option value=\"Tonga\">Tonga<\/option><option value=\"Trinidad and Tobago\">Trinidad and Tobago<\/option><option value=\"Tunisia\">Tunisia<\/option><option value=\"Turkey\">Turkey<\/option><option value=\"Turkmenistan\">Turkmenistan<\/option><option value=\"Turks and Caicos Islands\">Turks and Caicos Islands<\/option><option 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